Posts by Cold Steel

19

Pecking Order in the Millennium

by Cold Steel in

okay, the smoke has cleared.

everyone's dead who had it coming and the remainder find that their bodies have been changed.

no more disease, no more aging, no more human weaknesses and the weather is perfect.

Cold Steel

Yes, the LDS church has two types of prophecies. Those relating to Jerusalem in the Old World and those relating to the events that will happen in the New World. For years I concentrated primarily on those in the New World, but lately I've become interested in what will be going on in the Old World. A decade ago, Bible eschatologists were convinced that the kingdom that was, then isn't, but which will be again (the Antichrist) would be a reemergence of the Roman Empire. But why would the Italians or Russians be interested in attacking Jerusalem and killing the Jews and Christians? Then, when I read Richardson's book that said the kingdom to reemerge would be the Turkish Caliphate, and that Islamic prophecy sustained it, everything began to make sense.

Since so many people were talking about Armegeddon here, I decided to see what the Jehovah's Witnesses believed in relation to who the beast was. One day several years ago, some dubs dropped by and I asked for some information on Armageddon. They gave me a Watchtower on ARMAGEDDON and I read it carefully only to discover that there was no reference to Jerusalem whatsoever! I've tried to see things from the JW point of view, but so far it seems to be a bill of goodsl

As far as pecking order goes, since I don't know what the dubs are expecting, I don't know what will happen to facilitate it or who will run things once it happens. In traditional Christian theology, Jesus will rule through an actual kingdom. "Thy kingdom come," the Lord prayed. I don't see that the 144,000 will be the rulers, nor do I see that their resurrections will be any different than other who gain eternal life. Even as Jesus was resurrected as a perfect physical being of flesh and bone, so will all those whom the Father has given him. The apostle Paul stated that resurrections would differ in glory one from another depending on one's worthiness, but all would be physically resurrected and receive a perfect body. No one will be resurrected a spirit, because that's what they started out as.

Those who are alive when Jesus returns will remain alive (though the truly wicked will be destroyed by the "brightness of his coming"), which means that since no man can see God and live unless they are purified by the Holy Spirit, those unprotected at Christ's return will be burned. The decent people of the earth will be spared and taught the gospel. At some undetermined age, these people will be changed in a twinkling of an eye to a resurrected state and will not remain on the earth.

It's a fascinating topic -- and one that is spelled out fairly well in prophecy. And the Lord says through Ezekiel that this Antichrist is the one prophets have written about for generations, so how it can be gunked up by the dubs, I have no idea. Yahweh even addresses the Antichrist directly, as though speaking to him face to face.

And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates, To take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places that are now inhabited, and upon the people that are gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land. ... And thou shalt come from thy place out of the north parts, thou, and many people with thee, all of them riding upon horses, a great company, and a mighty army: And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee...before their eyes. ... And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel: And I will smite thy bow out of thy left hand, and will cause thine arrows to fall out of thy right hand. Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured. Thou shalt fall upon the open field: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord God . ... So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord, the Holy One in Israel. Behold, it is come, and it is done, saith the Lord God ; this is the day whereof I have spoken. --Ezekiel 38-39

The nation of Israel has been gathered out of the nations. It will be in the latter days. He will come up against God's people Israel from the north and will fall prey to the birds and beasts of prey to be devoured. Then note this promise: God will make his holy name known in the midst of his people Israel and, he said, "I will not let them pollute my holy name any more." And, finally, it will be the "day whereof I have spoken."

It implies that his people Israel had polluted his name in the past and he, the Lord, will not let them pollute it in the future. How can any of this involve Jehovah's Witnesses at all? And yet it is Armageddon of which the Lord speaks. Jump to Zechariah 12-14 and the story picks up there.

19

Pecking Order in the Millennium

by Cold Steel in

okay, the smoke has cleared.

everyone's dead who had it coming and the remainder find that their bodies have been changed.

no more disease, no more aging, no more human weaknesses and the weather is perfect.

Cold Steel

The Bible accounts of resurrections in the past give no indication that the humans raised were markedly changed in age or appearance. When a boy in Shunem died and was resurrected by Elisha, he came back with the age and appearance that he had at death. (2 Ki. 4:32-37) Consider also Jesus’ resurrection of Lazarus, who had been dead four days and whose body had begun to decay. Did Lazarus come to life drastically changed in appearance or with parts of his flesh decayed away? No. He looked about the same as before. Had he not, religious enemies would certainly have used that fact to discredit Jesus.—John 11:32-47.

Fascinating concepts here. Why would the writer assume that the resurrections performed by the prophets and Jesus would be the same as resurrections that came about because of the atonement of Christ? The boy Elisha brought back to life...and Jesus' friend, Lazarus...they were brought from a state of mortality to a state of mortality. Jesus, however, was raised from mortailty to immortality, and his resurrected body was perfect. He was able to eat fish, walk through walls, change his body to energy and then back to glorified matter. If our resurrections are like Christ's, why shouldn't we be able to do the same? Does the Society really think we're not going to pick up any new powers or abilities? Control over matter?

Further, we know that Jehovah is a God of order, kindness and mercy. That weighs against thinking that he will bring someone back to life missing a limb or being horribly disfigured by the terminal stages of a fatal disease. (Jas. 1:17; Luke 11:13) This does not require, though, that the individual come back ‘in the prime of life.’ If someone died of heart failure at 75 years of age, why could not God raise him with a comparable body, but with a heart that would continue to pump? Then as the healing power of Jehovah’s provisions, including the merit of Jesus’ sacrifice, were applied, the person could progress toward perfection.—Rev. 22:1, 2, 17.

Complete conjecture. All men are resurrected fully formed and perfect. To think such bodies could be injured, period, is not logical or well thought out. Keeping that in mind, let's not forget that most people during the Millennium will not be resurrected. People who are mortals can be injured; however, they will be either restored to health if they live, or, if they die, will be instantly resurrected in the twinkling on an eye. I think those who died over the years as infants will be resurrected as infants and grow into a state of perfection. But I can't see resurrected beings walking around like mortals, planting gardens, picking things up like leftover junk and carting it off the old fashion way. I think we'll gain some control over the elements and be able to move over the entire planet instantly, nor do I think we'll have to learn languages.

8

Preterism vs The Rapture??

by DATA-DOG in

in the preterist view, all scripture is fulfilled.

when jesus said to his disciples, " this generation ", he meant it.

they would not pass away until they saw the destruction of jerusalem.

Cold Steel

Well, Jesus' apostles attributed the prophecy about Jerusalem's destruction to Jesus. And it was fortuitous that they moved the Christians out of Jerusalem to cities like Pella shortly before the Romans came down on the city. Both the Old and New Testaments foretold that the Jews would first be scattered to the four corners of the earth and then, in the endtimes, that they would be gathered by the Lord and restored to their ancestral homeland. John talked about a third temple (presumably the one Ezekiel described), and the gathering didn't take place for many generations later. Thus, if they were prophets, they had no immediate expectation of Jesus' returning any time in their lifetimes. Also, during the 40 days (see Acts 1), Jesus was described as being very dismal about the future of the church. He didn't tell his apostles to hold in there; that help was going to come when least expected. Just the opposite, he told them that most of them would die.

I see all these "documentaries" where talking heads talk about how the apostles believed Jesus coming would be in their day. Nonsense. They knew what had to come first, and they knew it was far beyond their lifetimes. Even in our day, we know the third temple must be rebuilt. We know the United States has to topple as a superpower and that a new kingdom, most likely in Turkey, will be established and seize the entire Muslim world in that region. It will be given power to trample Jerusalem under foot for three and a half years, all of which means that the Second Coming cannot happen until all these things happen.

We also know of two major earthquakes that have to happen first, and that nations will be hit with plagues, famines and violence. These events of wholesale death and destruction is generally referred to as the "great tribulation," for it will come upon the earth as a great storm and will have no precedent in world history.

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26

How Long Will ARMAGEDDON Last?

by Cold Steel in

according to the jw doctrine, can armageddon happen any day now?

is it possible that it could happen tomorrow?.

will it last minutes, hours, days?

Cold Steel

ARMAGEDDON is an event that is at the center of JW theology, and is looked forward to with more fervor than the Second Coming of Christ. Jewish and Christian scripture, as well as Islamic prophecy, all see the final battle before the Millennium as the single culminating event that comes before peace can be established.

Why the Jehovah’s Witnesses have deleted Jerusalem from the equation is one of the true mysteries. Ancient Hebrew prophets saw it in vision and said Jerusalem was the centerpiece of the event (Zech. 12-14; Ezek. 38-39), and first century apostles also specifically mention Jerusalem (Rev. 12, 16); and even the Muslims believe it will involve Jerusalem, though they’re a bit confused over who the good and bad guys are.

So, having produced his very long video, AbleBodiedMan had this insightful reply to why Jerusalem was pulled:
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Alas, nothing was forthcoming. I’ve asked this of Jehovah’s Witnesses dozens of times and have yet to receive a single answer. A few years ago in a Bible study, I asked the question, and the next time they brought an elder. That was the first time I sensed that elders were hotshots in the Outfit. The other two guys sat back in the sofa intently staring at the elder. The elder, on the other hand, was sitting on the edge of his seat, a Bible in one hand and his other stabbing the air to make his points. As far as I caught it, Jerusalem in the Bible was a code word for something else — a spiritual reference I guess to their organization. But John calls the great city a spiritual “Sodom and Egypt.” Is that really the position they want to take? And why did John add the words, “...where also our Lord was crucified”? Here is the passage from Revelation 12, where the two prophets are killed:
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How could this in any way refer to Jehovah’s Witnesses or the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society? The primary issue is why more members of the Society don’t see these things. Here Armageddon is their central theme, the one they scare their kids with and the ones they threaten non-members with? The elder said he would read up on it during the coming week and get back to me. I never saw him or the other guys again.

I wasn’t trying to argue with these guys. I wasn’t engaged in a bash of any type, nor was I interested in debating them. Armageddon really is a fascinating aspect of the three major religions of “the book,” and everyone seemed to have the same basic prophecies except the dubs.

Don’t any of you ex-dubs recall hearing people give talks about Armageddon? Did they ever even mention Jerusalem?

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8

Elders appointed by Holy Spirit, an error in logic

by VM44 in

the watchtower and the jws use the following reasoining to "prove" that elders are appointed by holy spirit.. 1) the bible was written under inspiration of the holy spirt.. 2) the bible requirements for and elder are followed when selecting and appointing elders.. 3) therefore, the elders are appointed by holy spirt.. thre is a logical flaw in this argument.. consider the following counter example.. suppose that a person obtains a book on medicine written by a doctor a, and that the person follows the instructions in the book concerning the writing a prescription.. 1) can the perscription that the person wrote be considered as having been written by doctor a?.

2) can the perscription that the person wrote even be considered as having been written under the direction of doctor a?.

the answer to both questions is "no.".

Cold Steel

The real question is who appoints the appointers? You can trace the authority back only so far and then there are people appointing themselves. The scriptures also talk about bishops, priests, seventy, deacons apostles and prophets. Remember Agabus, who predicted Peter's confinement in Rome? He was a prophet, but not an apostle. And Revelation 11 talks about two prophets who will minister to the Jews in the latter days. So if God's organization includes all these other offices, where are they in the WTBTS? And why are there no ordinations in the Society?

The Society says it isn't a church, but Jesus said there is a church, and that it has keys of authority and all these other offices. So my question is, which church does the Society recommend joining if it isn't a church? And what about the church that the gates of hell shall not prevail against? If someone's looking for the church of Jesus Christ, with all the aforementioned offices, which people are ordained to, which church should one join? And is the Society competing against it?

Never could figure that one out.

22

i got a surprize birthday party today

by unstopableravens in

Cold Steel

Happy Birthday to you both!

No murders?

No grisly heads delivered on platters?

Guess people can have birthdays without going overboard.

8

Preterism vs The Rapture??

by DATA-DOG in

in the preterist view, all scripture is fulfilled.

when jesus said to his disciples, " this generation ", he meant it.

they would not pass away until they saw the destruction of jerusalem.

Cold Steel

Preterism is irreconcilable with both Jewish and Christian eschatology. Although it attempts to answer some questions regarding end-time events, it ultimately raises far more. I have some friends who are preterists and communicating with them is one of the most frustrating endeavors I’ve ever experienced in discussing religion with anyone.

One problem for them is explaining a vast array of prophecies in the scriptures that haven’t come close to fulfillment. They believe Jesus returned in the first century, but to what end? If so, it accomplished nothing. It simply put mankind on a never-ending course into the future, with no Millennium, no judgment, no end to the evil that exists on the earth. In short, to assume that prophecy runs to a certain point in time and then ceases makes no sense.

According to the ancient prophets, the time would come when Jerusalem would be ravaged and Judah would be scattered to the four corners of the earth. That happened in 76 A.D. In the latter days, the Jews would be gathered to their ancestral home and rebuild their temple. In Revelation 11, John is instructed:

And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

This is not the second, or Herod’s, temple. It’s a temple that would exist after the return of the Jews. Since the second temple was destroyed at the time of this writing (or so scholars tell us), we can place it in context to the latter-day coming of the beast, or Antichrist. The kingdom of the beast will place Jerusalem under siege for 3.5 years, or roughly 42 months. During that time, God will empower two prophets to defend the holy city. Again, John writes:

And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

I’ve never quite understood how the Jehovah’s Witnesses can miss the nature of this prophecy. Although the scripture states specifically and unequivocally that the city will be “where...our Lord was crucified,” Watchtower writers agree that this is a spiritual reference, not actually Jerusalem. And though John explicitly explains that these two prophets are two actual people (who were symbolized by Zechariah as two olive trees and two candlesticks), the Watchtower takes it to a third tier of prophecy where the prophets themselves represent something other than literal people. And Jerusalem, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, represents a third tier of prophecy where Jerusalem, in turn, stands for something else entirely.

After about 84 hours, the apostle writes, something remarkable will happen:

And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth. And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. And the same hour was there a great earthquake....

The earthquake, of course, is caused by Jesus, who is descending from heaven to the Mount of Olives. Here we pick up from Zechariah 14, where the Jerusalem is under siege and is on the verge of toppling. Then the Lord enters the fray:

For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

Notice how the one descending is specifically referred to as “the Lord.” This is the Second Coming of Christ, and Christ is specifically referred to as “Jehovah” in the NWT:

Jehovah will go out and war against those nations as when he fights in the day of a battle. In that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which faces Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount of Olives will be split in half, from east to west, forming a very great valley; and half of the mountain will move to the north, and half of it to the south.You will flee to the valley of my mountains, for the valley of the mountains will extend all the way to A′zel. You will have to flee, just as you fled because of the earthquake in the days of King Uz·zi′ah of Judah. And Jehovah my God will come, and all the holy ones will be with him.

The situation is the same mentioned by John. Jerusalem will suffer a devastating attack. After 3.5 years, the enemy will break through and kill the two prophets. Afterwards, when the prophets resurrect, there will be a horrendous earthquake, and the prophets will ascend to meet the returning Jehovah, or Christ. It all fits like a wonderful puzzle, but the Jehovah’s Witnesses completely obfuscate matters by telling their people it’s all spiritual and invisible. The prophets represent this and Jerusalem represents that, and nothing is what it appears.

The same is true for the preterists. Their “fulfilled eschatology” cannot explain the fulfillment of the above prophecies (because they haven’t happened yet). Bible students can make up their own minds. If they want to know exactly what will happen in this last great battle before the Millennium, check out Ezekiel 38 - 39 .

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19

Pecking Order in the Millennium

by Cold Steel in

okay, the smoke has cleared.

everyone's dead who had it coming and the remainder find that their bodies have been changed.

no more disease, no more aging, no more human weaknesses and the weather is perfect.

Cold Steel

Okay, the smoke has cleared. Everyone's dead who had it coming and the remainder find that their bodies have been changed. No more disease, no more aging, no more human weaknesses and the weather is perfect. What next? Will everyone's homes be destroyed, will the skyscrapers in New York, Chicago, Tokyo and other nations be razed to the ground? Or can we move into the house two doors down -- the one that was just remodeled or renovated?

But who will mankind now look up to as leaders? Will the anointed class be handing out edicts from Heaven or will members of the Governing Body appear in white robes and appoint leaders? In other words, who will be in charge? On another post, someone said there would still be weekly meetings, and there may still be a need for missionary work.

Have there been any articles written about what to expect?

6

RANDOM THOUGHTS . . .

by Terry in

random thought #1:.

in primitive times humans got their ideas from observing cause and effect.. if somebody got injured with great loss of blood they would die.

even the dullest thinker would associate blood with life itself.. random thought #2. when you watch somebody at their deathbed event the cessation of breathing is the signal of death itself.. a primitive observer would connect the exhalation (death-rattle) with the going-out-of-life.. we get the word respiration (breathing) and the word spirit connected to the thought of an intangible soul.. in other words, something (spirit, soul, breath) leaving the body and going off and away at the point of death originated belief in the soul.. a big deal is attached to a simple thing in and of itself no big deal.. random thought #3. a lot of bogus ideas come from mixing things together which do not belong together.

Cold Steel

We get the word reSPIRation (breathing) and the word SPIRit connected to the thought of an intangible soul. In other words, something (spirit, soul, breath) leaving the body and going off and away at the point of death ORIGINATED belief in the soul.

The Hebrew and Greek words for "spirit" and "breath" are the same, but causitive relationships can be difficult to prove. If one believes in a revealed religion, the concept of death would have been understood from the beginning. But even as a child, I saw the corpses of humans, birds and animals, and it was clear that there was something missing. It was there when it was alive, and gone when it was dead. Bodies, to me, have never looked real. The animating force within them wasn't just the air they breathed in and exhaled; it was something more. And despite what the Jehovah's Witnesses teach, the concept of a human spirit was far more than a Greek fable. When King Saul couldn't get a revelation regarding what turned out to be his last battle, he turned to a witch who conjured up what he believed was Samuel's spirit. The scripture doesn't say the vision was or wasn't Samuel, but that's not the point. The point is that this Israelite king believed that Samuel had a spirit which could be consulted.

It's equally as clear that the first century Christians believed not only that man has a spirit that survives death, but that the spirit comes from God and had a prior existence. Talk about causitive effects! If God was just and equitable, why wouldn't all people be born equal? Why are some smarter than others? Why do some excel in mathematics, while others are gifted in other areas? Why the difference in intelligence? Why are some people born bad? Some children born into good homes are just bad from the beginning, torturing small animals and even killing adults, while others are born just the opposite? Even if there is no God, even animals seem to understand death. Why not man?

There's also the difference between good and evil. It has nothing to do with survival, yet man seems to have a fairly good understanding of which is which. If anything denotes there is a God, it's this ingrained concept of good and evil, of beauty in music and art, and nobility. Even though many of us don't live up to the high standards we recognize, we seem to admire the people who have the traits of honesty, integrity, virtue, nobility and godliness.

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26

How Long Will ARMAGEDDON Last?

by Cold Steel in

according to the jw doctrine, can armageddon happen any day now?

is it possible that it could happen tomorrow?.

will it last minutes, hours, days?

Cold Steel

Thanks for your comments, AbleBodied. From the Jehovah’s Witness point of view, Armageddon is a when, not a where. For most other Christians, however, it’s a where and a when. When it’s a place, it’s called simply Armageddon; when it’s a when, it’s called the Battle of Armageddon. And since, like all battles, there will be casualties on both sides, it’s not improper to ask when all these things will be? Or when will this great battle take place?

But with Jehovah’s Witnesses, I’m never sure what their beliefs are on such matters. They make it sound like some day in the very near future, a huge storm will gather. Then, suddenly, demons and angels will come whoopin’ out of the sky and tearin’ into each other. Then, as the “true Christians” watch in horror, or glee, they’ll see angels dragging out their Catholic and Protestant neighbors and settin’ them on fire. The clouds then roll in thick and black, and lightning crashes in the heavens. Suddenly, like a thief in the night, the clouds part and Jesus descends whilst all the Jehovah’s Witnesses rise to meet him in the air.

In other words, it could come any moment.

Most other Christians have an eschatology that begins with Judah gathering to the lands of its inheritance and becoming a nation. After that, a kingdom will rise out of other kingdoms and that it will be a kingdom that once ruled the world, was disestablished and then reestablished. John saw the kingdom as a beast that would seek to overthrow God and utter great blasphemies. Bolstering him will be a “false prophet” who, like the beast, will receive his power from Satan. But it’s the false prophet who will wow the nations and people of the world with miracles such as calling down fire, and he will defer in all things to the beast.

Like other prophetic beasts, these will be real flesh and blood men, just as Alexander the Great was depicted before his coming as a beast revealed to the prophet Daniel. This beast, however, will come down on Jerusalem and occupy the third temple. He may even help build it. After a period of time, however, he will viciously turn on the Jews and begin slaughtering them. Zechariah points to the nations “round about” Jerusalem that will be Israel’s primary enemies, which is why I think the beast and false prophet will be Muslims. Two prophets of God will stand up against the beast and the power of Satan and the power of God will create a stalemate. But after three and a half years, the power of the beast will win out and the two prophets will be slain, their dead bodies left in the streets while a celebration takes place. But after three and a half days, these two prophets will miraculously stand upon their feet and ascend into heaven in the sight of the beast and his armies. Then all will hear a voice and a shout, and then every eye shall see the Messiah coming in the clouds and descending towards the Mount of Olives.

The remaining Jews will instantly know it’s their Messiah, and when the mountain is ripped in two by a horrendous earthquake they will flee into the newly created valley to meet him. But as they approach him, according to Zechariah, the Jews will say to him, “Where did you get these wounds?” (referring to the marks in his hands and feet). Then the Messiah will answer, “These are the wounds I received in the house of my friends.” Then it will dawn on them that their Messiah was Jesus, whom their fathers turned over to the Romans. Then they begin lamentations throughout the land. The Messiah will at that time be taken to the East Gate of the city and will be heralded into the temple. The East Gate will then be resealed and never opened again.

What about the beast and his minions? All but a sixth of them will be incinerated at the Lord’s coming. And thus the great Battle of Armageddon will be over.

In prophecy, the events are structured. If, for example, you live to see the two prophets killed, you will know when Jesus will come.

Thus, Armageddon is seen differently by first century Christians and modern day Jehovah’s Witnesses. The latter see it as a when. So my question was, according to those beliefs, how long do most Jehovah’s Witnesses believe the Battle of Armageddon will be?

(BTW, in your video, you made a number of errors in my view. First, it’s a stretch to believe that the JWs are directing people to Christ in Bethel. In other words, they don’t fulfill those warnings because those warnings are literal. The GB can claim to speak for God, but that’s not the same as saying that God is actually present at Bethel. Speaking for God isn’t the same as being God, as prophets have spoken for God for years. Also, when Satan told Adam and Eve that they would become as God, knowing good from evil, wasn’t a lie; the lie was that they wouldn’t die. Remember, later the [eloheim] said, Man has become as one of us, knowing good from evil. Without partaking of the forbidden fruit, man never would have become mortal. And if he didn’t become mortal, he could not have been redeemed, and if he could not have been redeemed, he never could have been achieved his potential of becoming like Christ in power and glory, inheriting all that the Father has. So arguably Satan’s temptation inadvertantly fulfilled the Lord’s plan; otherwise, why did the Father put the forbidden fruit within easy reach in a place where Satan had all the time in the world? Bottom line, the GB are at worst false prophets. They aren’t setting themselves up in God’s temple, proclaiming that they are God.)

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